Poker Forums

1) Dry board: A board like K94 rainbow flop where there aren't hardly any draws & not many hands are gonna be calling a raise, re-raise, bet, etc. Basically boards where draws calling are very slim or non-existant. There's not much more to know then that. They are the boards you wanna be trying to take pots away from aggro players or players who CB a lot, etc.

2) 3-bet light: If you know a guy is gonna be raising you light, super-light, you can get him to fold by 3-betting a good % of the time, then you put in a 3bet with a lesser hand repping something you think is ahead of him or repping a better hand then you equate he has. That's just a simple explanation of it, I'm sure someone can explain it in more depth or find an article for you

3) It's hard for me to explain so I'll find something for you real quick.

4) The thing about this CB is two things: 1) Your OOP 2) You can't beat anyhting on the board, even with a draw they are racing with you with 2 overs as well, so your almost always c/f the next street with zero info.

5) I'm just an asshole

6) Thanks to Contra I'm not just an asshole, I'm not an ignorant one.

This hand just happened. The difference is that here, I have position on both villains, and there is a pair on the board. Since a lot of micro players play weak aces, one of them having A2,A10, or just a 10 is a possibility, but I decided not to let a case of the MUBS stop me. So, is the pot sized C bet correct? I'm not trying to beat a dead horse here, these postings are the main way I learn. I'm too lazy (read: cheap/poor) to buy and read poker books.

This is what pot control means, you know when they call, most likely they are ahead & your gonna have to c/f the turn. So you want to get worse hands to call on the flop, by pot-betting you know you aren't accomplishing that, your effectively only getting better hands to call & your building a big pot for a hand that if they call, your behind or you gonna have to barrel 2 streets to get them to fold draws. Basically you want worse hands to call & effectively build a smaller pot for your hand because you know if you bet big your not getting much worse if anything worse to call at all.

If that makes sense.

Well, it makes sense to me. The thing is, I want them to fold. I'm only in the hand because I didn't want to fold 55 and I couldn't open limp. I just don't see a pair of fives as winning this pot. I see my bet as a semi-bluff. I do have a chance of making a set (a whopping 4%), get a little fold equity as 55 is probably ahead of their overall range which, this being micros, includes almost all 169 starting hands. but otherwise I figure I'm toast.

I see how if I get a call I should be prepared to fold the turn. But that still leaves my question unanswered. Was the pot sized C bet correct? I think so for three reasons. First, I find out real quick where I stand. Second, if I make it smaller, I would be giving a villain with 2 hearts odds to go for the flush. Third, I know how they see me and most likely will give me credit for a much stronger hand than I have.

In fact, after the hand, one of the villains said he had put me on AAA suited.

Yeah but the thing is, doesn't other bet sizes accomplish the same thing with less risk, smaller pot, & getting worse to call?

If they have air, your bet-sizes really don't matter & you really want them to call with air anyways, so saying you want them to fold is the wrong thinking. I'd bet prolly around 1/2 on this board just because you can still get Ax to call (bad players) & you can still get bad hands to fold & better hands to call/raise as well as draws.

Your reason for betting should never be to get someone to fold, although that is the goal, your also looking for one thing when betting: value. Though it may be thin value if any value at all, you should be betting for value, always. Now bet-sizing will always contribute to whether your getting value or just getting worse hands to call or just bluffing. Whether you be floating, bluffing, or just betting for big value, your always betting your hand vs your opponents range which in turn is betting for value knowing he's going to fold X% of the time to make your play +EV.

Your reasoning for 55 should NEVER be what you described. There's a ton of reasons to be raising 55 here, but this definitely shouldn't be it.

Well, OK, then what are the "ton of reasons for raising with 55?"

Maybe I play bad, but I don't think I ever c/f the turn if I'm called here. For these reasons:

They called out the blinds so you can widen their range a bit.

I'm pretty sure they raise a 10 on that flop.

Very very few deuces are in their range.

The only hand they seem to be flatting with are pocket pairs and hearts.

I might c/f if a heart came out. Other than that no.

I think this pot was yours to win Lou. NH

I more than likely bet the turn as well if I'm called, and possibly the river as a bluff depending on the texture of the board.

So when a Q comes on the turn or even an 8 your confident barreling your 5's now? What are YOU widening their range to calling a pot bet on the flop? You claim you are widening their range because they called outta the blinds, yet they have very few deuces in their range & as you've exclaimed yourself, you've turned your hand into a bluff, which is almost always.

I'm playing 55 here for a few reasons, your in position, you can outplay your opponents in position, if I know my opponents, I know I can get value from my 55 post-flop on tons of boards.

don't listen to joey ....

he just pretty much told u hes psychic by knowing whos going to call the raise saying hes in position ... idiot

Wow, lots to respond to... I'll try my best.

1) Pot control is exactly what it sounds like: controlling the size of the pot. The most obvious example is when you have a weakish hand like top pair/weak kicker or mid pair, and you think there's a good chance you have the best hand. Conventional wisdom says bet for value, but when there are lots of bad river cards or you're unlikely to be called by worse, checking or betting small to keep you from making a big mistake on a later street is pot control.

2) Betting the 55 hand is good, but as Joey said, the size isn't. Lou, you're right in saying that you want villain to fold. There are very few good turn cards, and fewer ways that the turn and the river will come in your favor. Bet to try to take it down now, as small as you think he'll still fold something like Q9 to. As far as shutting down on the turn, it's turncard dependent. Unless you're up against a player who's never folding 66 or 77 here, A K Q and J turns are all good cards to double barrel, and if the heart draw misses and another overcard hits, a good spot to triple barrel. Otherwise, I'm probably check/folding. Once villain calls on the flop, his range usually > your 55, and it becomes a bluff; there's nothing wrong with that.

3) Why would a reasonable villain raise a ten on this flop? What does he expect to get called by that he beats? If he's a loose-passive type of guy, he's not raising anything. If he's a maniac, then you shouldn't be cbetting anyway; you should be checking back the flop to let him do his thing and spew money at you.

4) How can I say this without saying it... If you're too cheap/poor to buy books, the internet has a wealth of information that comes without a pricetag, whether it's "supposed" to cost money or not. I'm always a fan of exploring all of your options. Speaking of exploring, have you guys ever navigated to a site called bittorrent? I hear it's pretty awesome.